As you all know, the original usage for the kingdom was to have a larger space for group builds. And I know some people build some cool stuff and they use the kingdom exactly for what I created it for. But we have – just by counting – 24 main lots that have not even one member apart from the owner. Do not get me wrong please – I don’t want you to just run around and search for members now or add random people to your lot. But I have somehow the impression that some people bought a lot to have it as a personal space on top of the empire lot, and not for a group build, or even to build anything larger than 128×128 either. Some might have bought one to have it “just in case” or even because it seems cool to have one.
I might be wrong about this. But I am worried that the original plan failed to a certain extent. I wanted, as you know, make a new city world that is identical to the kingdom where we can move mega-builds one-to-one over so people can see it and fly around. If most of the space in the kingdom will be given away for mining spots or to people who just throw their towel on the sun chair to occupy it, I wonder how this will work out.
But I also do not know really what to do to fix it or if I should just ignore it. One option could have been to make kingdom lots MUCH more expensive so only people can afford it if they group together. Or I could have forced people to submit a plan for a build before I give one to them. Or if kingdom lots should expire sooner than normal lots.
Suggestions are welcome. How can we make sure that the kingdom is more then a status symbol or a mining spot for people who want to avoid the darklands? How do we fix it for the future? Shall we do anything about the rules for the future? Change the price only? Make an application process? Both? Or leave everything as it is?
I think Kingdom lots should expire faster.. I wouldnt raise the price too much but say instead of 10,000 uncs maybe to 15,000-20,000 uncs. Also the thought of an application process would be great?. You’d have to have vaild reasons for wanting a kingdom lot and you can list what you will build , maybe this could be a contract? if you dont build the stuff you list you get evicted from the lot and you dont get your money back?. just some suggestions:)
i think that the kingdom lots should have a bigger application process. Like maybe you have to upload or link a simple sketch or map of what you will do to the kingdom plot so you know that it will be made into a large build, and maybe a warning if the owner does not actually follows those plans, e.g. uses the plot for mining instead. Also the person applying could say who they want to have permission to the plot before you get it so you know it will be a group build. I do not believe that the price should be made higher because this could rule out groups (like me and my friends) who are planning a group build together but are struggling to pay the uncs.
Keep a watch on the building on the lots. If not much is being done after two weeks then a warning is given. If still no progress then the land is taken away with no refund. Also any thing mined on the Kingdom is to used to build on those lots, not to sell. People should also give a plan on what they are doing. I do have 4 lots and doing most of the building but I have a huge plan. I am making a city. I have a jail compound, the start of a neighborhood, a small park in a snow globe tower, a 2 story mall, and currently working on a large 5 story hotel. My next build after the hotel will be a restrant on the side of the extreme hill. The view will be breath taking. The only thing that is slowing me down is going to the darklands for the sandstone for the hotel. Please forgive any misspellings. I am on my nook typing this and have no spell check. I will do s spell check when i get back on the computer.
Vixen , may i help you with this project it sounds really good:)
oALB yes you may. When I get on tomorrow I will see about adding you. I know that I can trust you.
May I also help? :D
Yes. When you 2 are on give me a yell to add you. :)
Oooooo, that sounds so cool
My only issue with this is that I bought my kingdom lot and plan to build on it, but right now I do not have the materials or the time to complete the project. I know the lot I want to build on though, and I bought it for that reason, even though I may not be able to build on it for a couple months due to previously mentioned restraints. I bought it to reserve my spot on which I intend to build.
I agree completely with Kevin
One more thing. The road lots should be just that, roads. If different people own the ajacient lots and are not building together on a mega build. They should be roads and not just a way to have a bit more land then your neighbor.
If I remember correctly, the first Kingdom the server had needed a “mayor” or “owner.” Masters or higher would have to create a plan (PineBen’s Rome or new project for example) and if people were interested, they could buy a lot or be added and join in on the co-op building with said master/elder. Maybe this would be a possible?
From personal experience, users(including myself) seem to have a lot more motivation to actually build something if they have a detailed plan. Nothing is worse than getting partway through a project only to have it look like a sub-par pile of dog mess.
That being said, I think it may be a good idea to have users submit a plan to you first, before buying a lot.(Maybe have them post it on the forums?) Another thing you could do on top of that, is have the project leader recruit at least 5 other users. In addition, I think a 20 thousand unc price tag would be viable as well. 10 thousand always seemed a bit small, considering the huge amount of land obtained by the buyer. It cost twice as much to maintain that amount of land in the old kingdom.
If a user can actually meet all of those requirements, there is nearly no doubt in my mind that they will actually do something with their lot.
I don’t particularly think the 5 users requirement is that good, I for one, would rather ( and actually) have a small-ish group of organized people, rather than a large one.
Also, the dedicated projects that I know of so far, if you’re wondering.(there may be more)
-Skilletfk’s project
-Vixengold’s project
-F1/Narraeson’s project
-Manmillionmind’s project
-Aerox247’s project
-Knowlesadam’s project
-Starcraft’s project
-My project
I have a project i am working on.
Forgot about craig, ndawg, and kevin as well.
I’ll have my project up and running once midterms are done, 2 more weeks! =)
Speaking as the one of the users who bought a Kingdom lot for personal use, my thoughts:
1) I bought a Kingdom lot solely because the project I’ve had in mind for awhile exceeded the space I had available in empire.
2) As far as the expenses go, I don’t think they’re too high. As a citizen, who plays quite often and votes 5/6 days of the week, it still wiped me out to purchase one 10k lot. Granted, there are people better at I than making money on the server, but figure that at the very least, making 400U a day by voting, it would take a user just under a month of voting every single day and not spending a single unc elsewhere to be able to afford a kingdom lot. Personally, being committed to a project enough to put in a straight month of resource gathering and fund raising already seems to show a bit of worthwhile thought being put into the process (and yes, I know that a month of resource gathering is a laughibly short time for some big builds :P)
3) The road/corner lots are still a bit odd to me. I don’t forsee them ever being used for their intended purpose because all it takes is one or two individuals ‘along the way’ to not use the street lots to actually build roads to spawn and all of a sudden the road system is fragmented and unusable. It would be much nicer if the size/cost of the roads and corners were just absorbed into the lots to make them a tad bigger, and a tad more expensive.
4) I like the idea of kingdom lots expiring faster, to keep it open for new players and projects. 2 weeks warning and 3 weeks reset seems fair, since as you mentioned, projects with many people will be active constantly, but that forces individuals using lots for pesonal projects to ensure that they’re active and being worked on.
5) I was quite surprised at how short the application process was. When I read about getting a kingdom lot, it sounded like I would have to fill out an actual application and wait for approval, so I had my plans all written up, a few diagrams, etc, ready to put into an application and hope for the best. Instead, the system just checked the lot was free, checked my account, and finished the transaction there. Not that I’m complaining at all about a short turn-around time on lot applications, but if we’re worried about mis-use of kingdom lots being an issue, a very easy way would be to require an actual plan and application.
Just my thoughts :D
Craiggers
I think that (3) should be pretty easy to handle by enforcing building restrictions. We can require that you provide a road when you buy road lots. You don’t even have to have it be a straight line, but you have to provide through access at the road end points. If you don’t do it, it’s a rules violation.
Simply making the lots bigger and eliminating roads only makes the problem worse. If we did that, we’re basically giving up on roads altogether.
I agree to a point.
I love the idea of roads and walkways connecting people to all the big projects, I’m just not convinced this is the most efficient way to go about it? If people purchase the street lots to connect to spawn, that’s awesome, but what if a second project needs to use some of the same street lots? Ideally, they could just contact the owner and build right in, but there’s no guarantee of that happening. That also ‘punishes’ some far away projects by making them build longer roads; for instance, for Skillet to get from our project to spawn, he’d have to buy at minnimum 6 new road lots, and 6 new corner lots, for a total added cost of 4,140U. Granted, that’s not a huge amount, especially not considering the amount already invested, but just something to think about.
If we wanted to encourage projects to connect to spawn, perhaps we could look at getting some ‘main’ roads edited in along the cardinal pathways from spawn, which are open to build to anyone with kingdom permissions already so players could just connect their projects to the main roads, instead of all the way to spawn? There would still be the same issues for projects further away than 1 lot from the roadway, but just an idea to consider.
Those are concerns, but as you said yourself, they are minor. I don’t think having people need to collaborate with their neighbors is a huge requirement.
As for someone “needing” to use a road belonging to a neighbor, why would they need to do that? A road is a road. If you own a road lot, you put a road on it in the style of your choice. You allow people to connect to your road at designated intersections, as I stated. Don’t really see a problem here.
I think we’re really getting the cart before the horse here, this is such a minor, hypothetical issue that I don’t think it’s at all worth changing the entire lot system just to deal with it, which is what you proposed.
I dont’ have a solution but Would like some thoughts noted.
I like the idea of Kingdom lots being meant for a group build only.
However, Rasing the prices would be unfair for players currently saving for a lot vs players who bought a lot already. I noticed that the people okay with rasing the lot prices already own a lot. So it’s not as big of a deal to them. Unless raising the lot prices only applied to only new players that join after the change is made or raise the price on all lots & locking them until the remaining ballance is met even for current lot owners. Sorry. That will probably be an unpopular idea to existing lot owners but seems to be a fair way to force the original idea of group lots & not discourage people who are already saving up for a lot.
Personaly, I believe in “give the people what they want” and “people will do what they want” So if someone can pay for it without conditions,They should be able to do what they want with it. Meaning terms and conditions would need to be laied down pryer to selling & the application process would need to check for multiple owners on the title before being approved. example of basic code. (For dimonstration purposes only, will need improvement.)
Dim Result as string
Dim i as intiger
Dim Validating as intiger
Validating = 0
for i = 0 to TextboxUser.i.count
if TextboxUser.i.text > “” then
Open Whitelist.test for Reading
if instr Whitelist = TextboxUser.i.Text then
Validating = Validating + 1
Else Validating = 0
End if
next i
End if
If Validating > or < TextboxUser.i.count then
Result = "denied"
else if Validating = TextboxUser.i.count then
Result = "Congradulations on your new Kingdom Lot!"
End if
I didn't bother to check what language is used but I'm sure it's not VB. :P This is just an easy example of many ways to check an array of applicant names against a Database.
i completely agree :D
I think it might be a good idea for a group of three or four older members who can be a council keeping an eye on the lots. A sort of comitee who will know the players, and their intentions for a lot and keep an eye that the lot is not simply stagnant.
I suggest this because every case is different and may require consideration.
I agree with most of the points made in this thread, to summarize:
I don’t think, however, that a detailed plan should be required. A simple paragraph or two of description should be enough. I also don’t think that a player should need to have their recruitment completed when the project begins. We can cover all of that by simply reviewing progress as above.
To put it another way, I don’t think we need to micromanage how people accomplish their builds. We should expect the community “leaders” to simply monitor progress, and if people can’t do it, they lose their lots. Knowing that this will happen is the only motivation that should be needed. Kind of like how we handle user applications in the first place. We tell you what’s expected, and if you can’t handle it, you’re out.
For the existing owners, I think that we can have an initial amnesty period where people can get refunds if they think it’s likely they won’t be able to meet the requirements, since this may not be exactly what they signed up for. :)
To follow-up to myself, I would add that I’d be happy to perform the “Reviewing” duties as part of my role as Elder. I think many other masters/elders feel the same, but it would be nice to hear confirmation.
My feeling is, just as Kingdom is for collaborative builds, it can also be administrered collaboratively. :) And if we can’t get Masters and Elders to cooperate in this way, that doesn’t give me a lot of hope for the whole group build concept. :(
“which has to be at least a certain number, like 3 others.”
I don’t think we should have a requirement for contributors. I for one have a personal project with a couple members. Even if there’s only one contributor, as long as there is a “megabuild” I think it’s fine.
One option might be to have a kingdom deposit for a project that would be automatically accessible by the members of a project. For example:
Inventories in the Kingdom would be separate from other worlds. If you want to bring stuff INTO the kingdom, you need to place it into a deposit. You can take stuff out of the deposit ONLY when you are in kingdom. It would be like a one-way deposit. That would make sure that people do not mine in the kingdom for the empire lot.
In order to have elders/whomever monitor the projects we can create something similar to the contests where people submit a microblog where they introduce their project and post updates on the progess, advertise for new members etc. The progress on that forum could be taken as a measure to judge if the project is dead or not.
To be honest, I really don’t like the one way deposit idea, sometimes you want to move items back and forth, and it’ll make things overall more difficult. For example I enjoy having my gear and tools with me at all times, having a separate inventory would just make things more complicated; plus we would need to block the shop as well. I personally would rather just have a visual check, or something, for an actual build, rather than having many hoops to jump through.
IMHO, I don’t like the idea of separate inventory for Kingdom. :)
Oh and another point: I think in this discussion we should split COMPLETELY the discusssions between
-what would be a perfect setup and
-what do to with existing lots once we decided on the setup.
We can always come up with a bailout, refund or even an amnesty for existing lots.
I personally have no qualms about the price being raised, however, I’m not particularly fond of having requirements that need to be met. I understand that you don’t want people using them as resource lots, but raising prices would likely fix that. I don’t think an application with a plan included is a good idea, since plans sometimes deviate. As said by Cr4igg3rs “2 weeks warning and 3 weeks reset seems fair.” That in conjunction with higher prices would likely solve the problem
The whole resources thing is a bit of a tangent and a red herring. Resource use is not the primary problem. The World Description for Kingdom is very short, and clear: It is for “larger group builds.”
If you want to use it for resources as well, in a way that is consistent with usage for larger group builds, I don’t see a problem. The problem is when you use it for resources instead of building. This is why I think this talk of separate inventories is unnecessary. Heck, even the application portion and raising the prices is really unnecessary (though I think they are a good idea). The only part that is really necessary is to verify that people are using the lots for larger group builds, and how we do that is incidental.
For you, F1, I have empathy for you and I admire that you are planning a solo megabuild. But that is just not what the world was intended for. Surely you knew this, having read the world description page. Uncovery has stated there may be a problem of people not using the world for its intended use, and so you propose to change its intended use to be in line with what people are actually doing. That’s kinda not solving the problem at all.
My view is that this is a rules problem, and should be dealt with like all rules problems, with perhaps a little more organized enforcement. If you don’t follow the rules, you have a consequence. In this case, the consequence can simply be losing your lot(s).
Seeing as how resources is not the pivotal issue, what is needed is a method for the enforcement of larger group builds?
Perhaps there could be a review board, that ensures that lots are used properly. Or we could even rely on self-moderation, where if one user sees another lot hasn’t been built upon for a while, he could report it. Or maybe even a combination of both.
Right now, the kingdom is still young, lesser builds will fall by the wayside, while larger, more successful builds will continue to expand.
One more thing, to stop people from just using the kingdom as a place to mine, what if we revamp the darklands? That way, people will use the darklands for its intended purpose.
Some suggestions:
1)Going back to Darklands lots
We could bring back the lot system again for the darklands, like it was a while back. We could have it be reset once a week (or month), where everyone would lose their claimed lots. After the reset people claim lots once more.
2) Allow commands in Darklands
One of the reasons I stopped utilizing the darklands was due to lack of commands. To be completely honest, having to walk all the way back to the portal was a bit of a nuisance once you got fairly far from it. Simply buying a kingdom lot may seem like an easier alternative to some.
In any regard, fixing the darklands will fix the kingdoms problem.
The thing is, it’s not supposed to be easy to collect resources. The darklands is not broken. And even if you change the darklands, there is no reason to think people will decide not to use Kingdom for resources unless you actually prohibit it. People will use whatever is available, as long as it’s permitted. The key is simply to prohibit it.
Also, I love having no lots in darklands. I think you are in the minority in wanting to bring back the lot system there.
To be honest, I am ambivalent in regards to lots in the darklands. At the time of posting, I thought the key issue was resources more than anything.
I think changing the darklands would help lessen the impact on the kingdom. I also think that monitoring the builds going on in the kingdom and upping the reset time is a great idea. Warning after 2 weeks and knowing you’re about to lose something you paid 10k for, that would be enough to get me to move on it! I’m not sure raising the price or requiring 5+ people to apply together will really solve anything. My two cents.
As a new user and a bit of a noob, I would say that the price should stay fixed. The reason being that gathering that amount of uncs for me has been a painful process of resource grinding and voting religiously. With that being said, I still have little to show for the few thousand i have made. Owning a kingdom lot for myself would be awesome and I intend on buying one eventually. I dont plan on having a large group of people either. I would probably build on it alone or with one other user (Kod) or if my other friends decide to get on. Ive been badgering two people lately trying to get them to get on uncovery. And as for the submitting a plan… I never work with a plan, ever, and I wouldn’t have it another way. I like the freeform thinking and natural aspects that come from building with just a few ideas in mind. Having other users building with me tends to irk me when I can’t LAN with them and we can talk directly to one another.
From what I have seen and heard, the kingdom is fine as is. A higher price might keep people from leaving their lot untouched. But as for me, I would use it as a resource gather and large build lot. Didn’t think there was an issue at all with the way it is set up. In global chat I always see people trying to get others to go half with them on a kingdom lot. It is pretty common to see this, for me at least.
If someone can pay for the lot, then they should be able to do as they please with it.
The only problem I am foreseeing is that now we are trying to tell people how fast they have to build. A lot of the people on this server have families and busy lives outside of MC. I am a full time student and I work part time and play MC whenever I get the chance, but sometimes I play purely for the social aspect of this server and don’t get much done in the way of building. While I am very active on the server, I definitely consider myself among the *slower* of the builders here. I do not think that it is fair to tell others how fast they should be building. As for raising the price on lots, that will only hinder building progress even more since the owners will have less money to spend on mats.
I like the idea of a more stringent application process to get a kingdom lot. That is, making future owners present a plan to build on, or making players buy lots in groups. Obviously this makes it harder on those who would be regulators, but this is the most fair option from what I have seen. I will gladly give up ownership of my kingdom lot and go through this new application process, or whatever process we deem necessary.
Nobody has mentioned speed of building. Unless you are saying that you foresee yourself making no progress on your project for 2-3 weeks at a time, and having nobody else who can work on it either.
If you can make at least a little progress every 2-3 weeks, there should be no problem. Nobody has said anything other than that regarding speed. Why are you worried?
I just think that “progress” is a little too vague. If we buy a lot and then disappear into the DL to mine for materials for our mega-build for a few weeks, is that progress? If I work on a project and then become busy with finals for a few weeks, do I risk losing all my work. I guess obviously that would be judged by those responsible for policing the Kingdom. The ideas I have seen mentioned restrict the Kingdom to active builders, not to casual players. Which I think is fine, it just needs to be made clear that it is an area catering to those types of players and others risk losing their lot if they cannot keep up. I bought my kingdom lot knowing that I could not build on it this week, this month, or even this year perhaps because I am already working on 2 other group builds. I see now that I was in the wrong doing that. I was simply trying to get a good lot and not get stuck with a water lot :D
Anyways, like I said I think that clarity in the rules, which is always great here on Uncovery, is most important so that players know the risk they take when buying a kingdom lot. There is just simply too much ambiguity in the ideas so far, in my opinion. Also I like the idea of a “foreman” on each project that will be held responsible for building progress and presenting a plan.
I am of the personal opinion that 3 players must be involved minimum for a kingdom lot each paying 10,000 and each owning the lot. This may create interesting factions in a lot or just plain large scale builds but having 3 equal members makes it a co-operative effort that takes a bit of forethought while razing the over all price tag/ keeping it low for individuals.
i think each paying 10,000 is a bit much
i bought another kingdom lot but i dont know what to do
thank you for being the topic of this post.
I am creating a enchanted garden theme with asian style houses and shops. However I was not prepared for the actual size of the lot and need to get more materials. Due to the size I also need to redesign somethings as well. I am perfectly fine with having my money refunded to me untill I am more prepared if you chose to go that route. As far as mining for materials one thing If it is possible you could have any block mined from kingdom disappear so that people cannot collect ores from kingdom. I am looking for help on my project as well. If anyone would like to assist when the time comes for the project to start I would love the help. So far I only have one other person. All I ask is that we have at least chatted on the server before. :) The price I am fine with. Only being a settler it was a little pricey to buy a lot however I am so excited to start this project I would pay double of what I payed to do the build. Good luck with the issue and happy building.
I’m just about to purchase my Kingdom lot. I don’t mind letting other folks build on it. Heck, I’d be happy to have some help. But I want to be the sole owner.
That brings up the issue of valuable possessions. If I were to allow others to build on my Kingdom lot, they’d also be free to skate off with diamonds and other materials. If I were able to transfer items between the Kingdom and Empire, that would solve the problem. I could use my Empire lot as a sort of bank. Others could build on my lot and I’d be less anxious over potential griefing or theft.
I know this solution would allow users to simply strip-mine their Kingdom lots rather than develop them. And I’m not going to lie, I will strip mine the heck out of my lot. But I will simultaneously develop it. It might not be at a pace everyone thinks appropriate but I feel like the time I invested to get the 10k Uncs for the lot should allow me some leeway. As I get to know more people on the server and I add additional builders, the rate of construction will accelerate.
I think requiring a brief construction plan is reasonable. However, whoever monitors this plan must understand that projects take on a life of their own; they must be open to drastic change as long as it is reasonable and tasteful. I believe someone else put forward the idea of some sort of council to judge designs and progress; I think a council might work. Perhaps, with a loose set of guidelines, neighbors or more senior members might be able to perform this function. Their thoughts and suggestions could be submitted to the most trusted senior members and/or Unc.
I also think the current pricing at 10k for normal Kingdom lot is appropriate. I don’t think it is too pricey at the moment nor do I think it is too easy to get 10k Uncs. I believe that all senior Empire and Aether (Skylands) players should be able to purchase a Kingdom lot relatively easily. I believe new players, such as myself, should be able to purchase a Kingdom lot if they put forth a good deal of effort, like I believe I have.
Finally, I agree with F1’s ideas about the fixing the Darklands; Neither that or any of my ideas is an absolute guarantee of what we’ve envisioned the Kingdom to be, but I think we can obtain pretty good results without enacting any Draconian measures.